Religion Part III- Justifying religious belief

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Religion Part III- Justifying religious belief 12.11.03 (9:05 pm)   [edit] As I have stated in previous posts, we, as mere humans, do not have the ability to prove that God exists, nor do we likely have the ability to prove that there is no God. So then, how does one justify a belief in something that cannot be proven? Again we come to the absurd wager proposed by Blaise Pascal. Among the most common justifications for religious belief is this wager, which is based on assumption. If we assume that we cannot know for certain whether God does or does not exist, and assume that if God does exist and we believe in Him and live our life in accordance to our religious faith, we will receive eternal rewards. By the same token, if we do not believe in God and it turns out He does exist, we will be condemned to eternal damnation. Therefore, based on these assumptions, it would be foolish not to believe in God, as there is more at risk if we do not believe in Him. That's Pascal's wager in a nutshell. Now, I say this is ridiculous because, for starters, it is based solely on assumption (and you know what happens when you assume :wink: ). Moreover, it is silly to base your life on the possibility that there may be a God, rather than living your life on your own accord. I'd like to propose my own wager, the opposite of Pascal's. If we assume that we cannot know for certain whether or not God exists, and we further assume that God [b]doesn't[/b] exist, and if we do not maintain a belief in this nonexistent God we will enjoy a life of rewards based on taking individual responsibility and accountability for our own actions. Our life will be more meaningful if it is lived for our own reasons; we will not base our moral standards on some arbitrary guide, but will exercise true morality; and we will be complete as individuals on our own. However, if we choose to believe in this nonexistent God we will not gain any rewards in this life or in eternity, but will have lost any meaning in our own life and live a life of falsity. Which seems more dangerous to you? Granted, eternal damnation is not all that appealing, but there is less evidence to show that there is a God than there is to reason that there exists no such supreme being. Therefore, I'd make the wager that the risk of believing in God, based solely on a leap of faith, is more harmful than living your life for yourself. In these past three posts, I have addressed the most important issues within the subject of religion (according to me :wink: ). If there are any more issues needing explanation, please feel free to ask. I will end this with an excerpt from a philosophy text explaining how religious belief is unjustified and can be dangerous: "A further philosophical position is that religious beliefs are intellectually irresponsible because they are based not on any factual evidence, but only on [i]wishes[/i]. It would be very consoling and wonderful if there were a personal God who made us, who cares for us, and who wants us to enter an afterlife of eternal happiness. Moreover, belief in God can give our life- and even the sufferings it inevitably includes- a profound meaning. But for me to believe in God simply because it makes me feel good seems comparable to my believing that someone just deposited a million dollars in my bank account because this belief makes me feel good. Although a belief that comforts me might be true, it would be unreasonable, and possibly dangerous, to [i]act[/i] as if it were true. If I go on a spending spree because I have an unfounded belief that my bank account is bulging, I will find myself in trouble if it turns out there was no anonymous benefactor. The argument here is that it is unreasonable for us to accept religious beliefs simply because we find it comforting to think that they are true."   posted by: Kitfox (reply) post date: 12.11.03 (10:00 pm) very interesting...I like....especially those last comments... I'm not Christian so I don't believe in all that silly end of the world, heaven and hell crap... Yeah, I believe there are the God and Goddess trying to make sure I don't screw everything up, but they ain't gonna damn me for doing so. And I don't just believe cause it comforts me. Sometimes, I'm a bit scared of the whole notion of divinity. posted by: Edgar67 (reply) post date: 12.11.03 (10:20 pm) Reply to: Kitfox Interesting, you "don't believe in all that silly heaven and hell... (because you are not a Christian) but you DO believe in "God and Goddess..." Exactly what do you base you belief on? Not just because it comforts you... so it does bring you some measure of comfort to believe this? I agree 100% with DB22. It IS unreasonable to "accept religious beliefs simply because we find it comforting to think that they are true." There had better be more than that. Much more. posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 12.11.03 (11:01 pm) Reply to: Edgar67 Wow, you agree with me? Amazing. So how do you justify your religious belief? posted by: Kitfox (reply) post date: 12.13.03 (9:42 am) the point is, I realize that perhaps there is nothing there and that by putting a face or conception to it, I'm essentially lying to myself, perhaps... However, isn't a common human act to try to adapt things so we understand them or at least attempt to? I don't understand the universe, how it was created, how life started, how big the blackness in the sky is... My belief is merely the attempt of some small thing in a large universe to understand it... Could i get away without believing the God and Goddess? Yeah, probably could. However, it's nice to think, sometimes, that whatever put the wheel of time into motion was something more then myself. Therefore, I choose to believe what could be a lie, excepting that knowledge. Just as I can't tell you if Divinty is real, I can't tell you if it's not. Nobody really knows. posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 12.14.03 (1:55 pm) Reply to: Kitfox I appreciate your perspective. At least you acknowledge that what you are choosing to believe in could be a lie. I tried out the Wiccan faith years ago and enjoyed the rituals and found comfort in the spiritual aspect of it all. But I never really believed in it and eventually came to realize that I'm much better off if I can take comfort in myself and rely on my own instincts rather than anyone or anything else's. But, it's up to each individual to discover what truly makes them happy and sets them free. I don't think religion does that, but if it works for you, that's all that matters (so long as you don't try and force it on me). ;) posted by: Kitfox (reply) post date: 12.14.03 (2:13 pm) ew...no, forcing bad. Very very bad... posted by: JamesYerian (reply) post date: 12.19.03 (1:39 am) Nothing you say is any better than Pascal's wager. You say that when you assume you never know what's going to happen. We don't know that anyway. You say that we should live life on our own accord, for our own reasons-- how is this different than living a life of assumptions? All we can do is assume the decisions we make are the best ones, right? We still don't know if they are right or not. We may feel good about the decisions we make, the 'assumption' we make, "on our own accord" but this has no more value than adhering to Pascal's wager. To tell you the truth, as a Catholic, I believe that anyone that follows Pascal's wager is likely to not get what he wishes. The wager is callous because it is so interested in THE SELF, not God. This is the same type of selfishness that is at the root of living a life on your own "accord" (which is still a life of assumptions). posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 12.19.03 (10:32 am) Reply to: JamesYerian "as a Catholic, I believe that anyone that follows Pascal's wager is likely to not get what he wishes." I don't think I said it in this post, but in several others I have mentioned that if I was a Christian I would be offended by Pascal's Wager because it fosters a sense of belief in God not based on true feelings of belief, but solely on a desire to believe. So, believe it or not, we actually agree on that point. Leaving Pascal's wager aside, because I really didn't intend on that being the main focus of this entry, my point is that there is no logical justification for a belief in God. I suppose everything is based on assumption, as we ultimately have to take our beliefs, whatever they are, on faith. I just think that taking a story on faith in which an omnipotent, omniscient being in the sky creates the universe, punishes the creatures he creates, requires you to have a blind faith in Him in order to be saved from eternal damnation (which He creates, as He creates evil- then punishes you for it), etc. is not a good idea and not a good way to live your life. The reasons for believing in God are not in the least convincing and basing your life on what could very well be a lie is dangerous. As Pascal said though, if God does exist you lose nothing by believing in Him. I just think you lose quite a bit by believing in Him if He doesn't exist. Your Name: Your Comment:

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